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Subject: Re: [boost] [c++11]
From: Lars Viklund (zao_at_[hidden])
Date: 2013-06-14 15:28:10

(Do take some of the original reply with a bit of salt. It's something I
feel very strongly about, so some superlative and emotion will have
crept into my posting)

On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 02:00:29PM -0500, Nevin Liber wrote:
> On 14 June 2013 13:20, Lars Viklund <zao_at_[hidden]> wrote:
> > I guess it's losing the goal and aim I perceived, if it ever had it to
> > begin with. To me, it feels like a betrayal from the library I have
> > spent many manhours supporting.
> >
> Again, no one is stopping you from supporting C++03.

Support as in the end-user support and troubleshooting I provided for
years and years on IRC out of belief that a strong community and
responsive aid would help Boost.

Not all contribute through libraries, and thus, cannot affect the path
of the library in any way but discussion in the hope of aligning

I see a significant issue in that no-one with the power to do so has the
guts to make a solid decision, instead letting the library waffle along
without any overarching guidance in a situation that in my not so humble
opinion needs some proper action.

Deferring it to the benevolence of library authors might feel democratic
and all, but it puts a big burden on them to each make decisions that
in conjunction may not turn out well.

> > As for limiting Boost authors, for leaf libraries that end users can
> > avoid, sure, there might not be too much harm. It's creeping into the
> > very core libraries as well, which _does_ bother me, as it can render
> > whole swaths of the library utterly unusable.
> >
> Again, what are the concrete examples of this? What previously useable
> libraries are now "utterly unusable" because of C++11 support?

You misread me. The last statement is speculative, about what I believe
is going to happen if we continue on this path of slowly going from
C++03 compatibility with a sprinkling of functionality that makes the
library equivalent but faster for people who happen to build on a C++11

Pretty much anything that fakes variadics is under the constant pressure
to disregard compatibility and "just use variadic templates already".
Thankfully the authors of those libraries haven't folded.

Boost libraries are encouraged to use other Boost libraries to avoid
duplicating functionality, so once one library folds, the rest are

As a closing statement:
I'm not advocating staying on C++03 forever, that would be delusional.
I am, however, imploring that we need to sort out a common vision going
forward, with the support of the active maintainers, the Steering
Committee and the developer community. I don't see any bright future in
letting the transition just happen without a common plan, breaking the
world as it goes.

Lars Viklund | zao_at_[hidden]

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