Re: [boost] [Boost Library Incubator] Unable to submit library

Subject: Re: [boost] [Boost Library Incubator] Unable to submit library
From: Robert Ramey (ramey_at_[hidden])
Date: 2014-07-20 16:53:06

Edward Diener-3 wrote
> On 7/20/2014 12:59 PM, Robert Ramey wrote:
>> Edward Diener-3 wrote
>>> On 7/20/2014 2:03 AM, Robert Ramey wrote:
> 
> I give specific instructions how to test the library with Boost Build.

very good

> I do not think it is very important to see test results online. It means 
> next to nothing unless you can look at the tests themselves and 
> understand what they are doing. In my library running the Boost Build 
> tests locally gives the results and you can use any compiler supported 
> by Boost Build. 

I disagree - I love seeing other peoples test results and check the
Boost Test matrix on a daily basis.  I always lamented the lack
of this facility for libraries not in boost. 

> I am not going to invent another way of testing just to 
> show some results online. 

No one is asking you to.  The existence of a test suite is a requirement
for submissions to the incubator - the existence of a test dashboard
is not.  Note that on the submission form, the link to the test dashboard
is NOT marked with a * - that means that you can leave the field blank.

> Anybody who is really interested in a library 
> should not be so lazy that they are not willing to clone it locally and 
> try it out.

lol - you're preaching to the choir.  That is to say I agree.  But what 
I like about the test dashboard (like boost test matrix) is that it gives
me feed back on test failures on platforms that I don't have at my 
disposal.  This is very useful to me as a library developer.  I would love
to see the tests of people having problems.  Even better, when some
person complains "This #$%^&* thing doesn't work - I can as the 
developer tell him: "Run the test suite and post the results to your
test dashboard."  This would help me eliminate a huge amount of
wasted time with people who are not really helpful.  This is another
great motivator for me.

> I am not saying I may not look at your CMake/CTest/CDash combo at some 
> time, but if it is an absolute prerequisite for having a link to online 
> test results in the Boost Library Incubator I would rather remove my 
> library. 

It's not in the requirements - and they are explicitly stated in the
introduction
page.  Your library met the stated requirements so it's in the incubator.
Had it not done so - I would have let you know.  Truth is - this hasn't
been a problem so far.  Every library submitted has met the requirements.
I credit this to the fact that
a) the requirements aren't to unreasonable.
b) they specify "what" rather than "how" so they are quite flexible.
c) there are a number of libraries already in the incubator and the
demonstrate "how it's done" which is helpful.
d) people who look over the requirements and the submission form
don't even bother.  

So, so far it's working perfectly (aside from some technical glitches).

> Dealing with Boost Build is hard enough. 

again, you're preaching to the choir.  It's a lot of time and work 
(for the rest of us).  That's why I don't recommend it in this context.
That doesn't mean that it's prohibited though.

> Spending much time on 
> yet another set of underdocumented build tools, and trying to figure out 
> how they work together just to be able to specify some URL of test 
> results, is too depressing for me to think about. It is not your fault 
> that nearly all of the people who create build and/or tests systems are 
> so poor in explaining how they work, but it seems that is always the case.

lol, again we're on the same page.  You don't have to do this.

The real response is that boost build should have an easy method to
post test results to some test dashboard.  This is a way non-trivial
task and is never going to happen.  The incubator requirements
recognize this and don't require the test dashboard.  

>> It's a work in progress.  I much appreciate the feedback from all
>> parties working with this system - it's a great help.  Thats why
>> I love boost - it makes me a better person.
> 
> I think your site is a great idea but aside from someone putting their 
> library there and hopefully responding/discussing other people's 
> comments, suggestions, queries etc. I think the less you require of a 
> library submitter the better. 

Hopefully, it should be clear that this has been my intention from moment
one reads the introductory page and list of requirements.  For me some
requirements were non-negociable:
a) browsable documentation
b) test suite
c) some sort of deployment method
and these don't specify any specific tools, formats (other than html docs),
issues database, source control, etc. I explicitly tried to keep
requirements
the the minimum necessary - and mother more.

> If others are too lazy to follow 
> instructions for using the library locally then that is their problem, 
> not that of the library creator. 

lol - maybe - but if one want's his library to be successful it has to be
accessible to the widest possible group of programmers.  Hopefully,
a submitter who goes through the Boost  Incubator website will be
able to do this with the minimum amount of wasted effort.  

> In fact I think you should have another 
> field in your Library Submissions page: something like "how to use the 
> library and any other comments the library submitter would like to make 
> about his library for the benefit of end-users".

The library description is pretty free form so such information could be
included.  But I think that the a better place would be in the library
documentation itself.  Now that it's browsable on line, it's easy to find.
So I wouldn't be too concerned about this issue.

One think that's great about the github browsing of the documentation.
It's zero effort to maintain.  When every you make a change in your
qbk docs - just regenerate and check into git hub - users are now 
all up to date.  This is really great in my opinion.  Keeps the browsable
docs in sync with the current code with almost no effort.

Another very fun thing about this - try the button "display statistics"
on your library page.  This will show you graphs, and records of 
people who have surfed your library.  I do it for mine every day.  It's
a great way to get through those teleconference meetings which
drone, on and on and on.  You can get some feed back on your
library just from looking at this.  If I had time I would improve
the statistics some and make the page readable by users who
are not registered - but it was free and already quite good - and fun.

Robert Ramey

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