Re: [boost] [mpl] multiset

Subject: Re: [boost] [mpl] multiset
From: Robert Ramey (ramey_at_[hidden])
Date: 2015-02-19 17:19:17

Edward Diener-3 wrote
>> I'm just wondering whether the lack of development of MPL in the past
>> years
>> is just incidental, as developers moved on to new frontiers, or if indeed
>> if reflects a consensus that MPL is obsolete nowadays, which I find hard
>> to
>> believe.
> 
> I believe it reflects the fact that the two developers mostly 
> responsible for creating MPL are not very active in Boost anymore.

The mpl library provides functionality which is no where else available
and which many boost libraries depend on.  

I believe that the fact is that no one is responsible for it anymore.

Just eliminating a few hacks in it is not the same as taking responsibility
for it.

A while back Stephen Kelly specified changes to MPL to get rid of  hacks 
for old compilers that nobody should be using anymore, and which would 
simplify the MPL code a bit so that new development could more easily be 
done with the code. 

This effort had a couple of issues.  First it changed the scope of mpl from 
a library which would support older compilers to one which would limit
support to a more modern subset.  This basically amounts to a change
of interface.  Another problem is that making such changes is much, much
tricker than first meets the eye.  It would be huge effort to do it right.
The right way would be to:

define MPL2 - a C++11+ version of mpl.  Re-implement MPL in terms
of C++11.  This could skip any part of mpl already in the standard.
Presumably it would be a much smaller effort than the original, but it
would still be a very large effort.  Remember that MPL is the result of
efforts of two of the best C++ programmers anywhere.  It would be
hard to meet that standard.  Of course anyone is willing to try, feel free.

> But these changes were never made and the opinion 
> was voiced that Hana would supercede MPL so why make any changes to MPL 
> itself. I am with you in believing that until a new  metaprogramming 
> idiom becomes more popular, such as Hana or maybe Eric's blog 
> contribution.

The jury is still out on these efforts.  My concern about hana is that it
seems to have evolved way beyond what MPL does and so wouldn't
serve as a "drop-in" improvement.  I don't know about Eric's effort
but I believe he's said he can't bring to the level of a boost library
and no one has expressed any interest.

>  it is worthwhile looking at possible improvements in MPL 
> and it is certainly worthwhile fixing any bug reports which may have 
> been made against MPL.
> 
> I can understand the nervousness by which others view any changes to 
> MPL, since it is so heavily used by other libraries and such a core 
> library, but I do not understand the point of view that MPL should 
> remain as frozen as possible so as not to cause problems with other 
> libraries which use it.

I think the main concern is that someone makes a fix - which fixes 
his problem - but then walks away from it. Then something breaks
and the next person does the same thing.  That's not the same as
having a maintainer take responsibility for it.

This is an instance of our larger problem of finding a way to keep
maintainers for libraries.  It's still not even close to being solved.

Robert Ramey

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