Re: Future of C++ and Boost

From: Timothy Keitt (tkeitt_at_[hidden])
Date: 2022-04-20 15:02:46

I'm just a hobbyist (I use C++ wrapped in R for my research and
exploration) but my dream is something like julia (https://julialang.org/)
but with modern C++ syntax. I have really enjoyed the recent
metaprogramming additions to C++ and would love to have that in an
interactive environment with incremental jit. (I know this can be kind of
done now but its not like using R Studio or other nice user platforms.)
BTW, C++ is found in high performance scientific computing, but not as
often as Fortran and C.

TK

On Tue, Apr 19, 2022 at 5:28 PM William Linkmeyer via Boost <
boost_at_[hidden]> wrote:

> +1
>
> Although, I feel that there should be an *attempt* to make C++ libraries
> easy enough to use for anything.
>
> (For example, say, use asio & beast for websites. I can dream, okay?)
>
> WL
>
> > On Apr 19, 2022, at 10:42 AM, Vinnie Falco via Boost <
> boost_at_[hidden]> wrote:
> >
> > It might be interesting to think about where C++ and Boost will be in
> > the next 20 years and in the next 50 years. There has been an
> > explosion of research and development into new programming languages
> > (Rust being the most visible example). C++ is hardly the most popular
> > language (Python is, if the TIOBE index is to be believed). But C++ is
> > an essential language because it occupies the unique position of being
> > as close as possible to assembly language while remaining high level.
> > The zero-cost abstractions, metaprogramming, and powerful
> > compositional tools of C++ still have no competitors and they are
> > unlikely to have them any time soon.
> >
> > This doesn't necessarily mean that C++ is good for everything; there's
> > an opportunity cost for all this. C++ code is generally more complex,
> > harder to read, and harder to write than other code. Other languages
> > are much better suited for certain tasks. No one should be
> > implementing a content-driven website using Asio and Beast for
> > example. But for the things that C++ is good at, it excels at them. A
> > recent reddit post [1] provided a decent list::
> >
> > * games
> > * databases
> > * high frequency trading
> > * search (Google/Bing/DuckDuckGo)
> > * web browsers (Chrome/Safari/Edge)
> > * virtual reality headsets (Facebook)
> > * distributed systems at big tech companies (Google/Microsoft/Facebook)
> > * low level libraries (machine learning libraries like tensorflow and
> pytorch)
> > * compilers, virtual machines, interpreters (JVM/gcc/LLVM)
> > * robotics & hardware (ex: self driving cars, planes, missiles, space
> > ships, etc)
> >
> > My opinion is that wg21 (the C++ standards committee) has been growing
> > increasingly out of touch with the needs of the larger C++ community.
> > Not necessarily out of malice, but because the bureaucratic process of
> > the committee does not align the incentives of its members with users.
> > I predict that we will see the C++ standard library become
> > increasingly irrelevant by not only failing to produce stable things
> > that people want, but also by not even keeping up feature-wise with
> > the library ecosystem of other languages. Where is Requests [2] for
> > C++? Python has had this for over a decade.
> >
> > In case you think I'm exaggerating, look at this comment from Reddit:
> >
> >    ...a major vendor is getting ready to release a product that does
> >    not allow user applications to directly access TCP sockets so
> >    the only way to get any network access is to go through their
> >    standard library which only supports backdoored HTTPS.
> >
> > This vendor of course is Apple, as can be seen in P1860R0 [4]. We
> > should not expect that wg21 will be able to deliver an important
> > feature such as networking in a form that will be usable or
> > recognizable to non-committee members.
> >
> > What does this mean for C++ and Boost? I believe there is a
> > significant opportunity for Boost to step in and become the rational
> > collection of actually useful libraries that the C++ standard library
> > is not. We already have networking, some protocols, and JSON. We (the
> > existing Boost authors and contributors) might consider looking to the
> > list above of industries that use C++, and focus our efforts more
> > towards providing libraries that enhance those industries. Perhaps by
> > reaching out to leaders in those fields we might establish working
> > relationships and build, say, the next Boost.Tensorflow or something
> > like that. I don't know.
> >
> > Oh, and add "cryptocurrency" to the list above. C++ is the language of
> > blockchain, because performance matters.
> >
> > What do you think?
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Vinnie
> >
> > [1] <https://www.reddit.com/r/cpp/comments/u5vjni/comment/i54qbzq>
> >
> > [2] <https://docs.python-requests.org/en/latest/>
> >
> > [3] <https://www.reddit.com/r/cpp/comments/u6z8gr/comment/i5caxr6>
> >
> > [4] <
> http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2019/p1860r0.html>
> >
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