Problem: Mailing List Moderation
As far as I know there are two designated moderators for the list: Glen Fernandes, and John Maddock. Possibly there is a third, Marshall Clow, although this isn't clear from the website. Regardless, we have a problem where new people are coming to the list and getting moderated. I have brought in several first-time mailing list posters (and first-time review participants, via Boost.SQLite). They have all reported problems where their messages are stuck in the moderation queue. If we are to bring vital new participation on the mailing list, we need to improve their experience. I'm not sure what the best solution is. Thanks
On Wed, Aug 27, 2025 at 12:22 PM Vinnie Falco via Boost < boost@lists.boost.org> wrote:
I'm not sure what the best solution is.
1. Get more moderators to improve response times. Preferably across time zones. 2. If we don't already do this.. Implement anti-bot / anti-spam signup practices so we can maybe remove the initial post moderation. I volunteered to help with #1. But obviously that doesn't help that much given that I'm in the same general time zone at Glen and Marshall. For #2 there are services that can handle multi-stage signup validation to avoid bots and casual spammers. We should investigate if mailman has something like that already. And if not, if some service supports mailman. The goal being to remove the signup and initial post moderation. One possibility is to require OAth signup authentication (to a limited set of trusted OAth providers). -- -- René Ferdinand Rivera Morell -- Don't Assume Anything -- No Supongas Nada -- Robot Dreams - http://robot-dreams.net
If you need someone on Paris time I’d be happy to help :) Although I’m not sure what the responsibilities entail, Best wishes, Arno
On Wed, Aug 27, 2025 at 11:09 AM René Ferdinand Rivera Morell via Boost < boost@lists.boost.org> wrote:
2. If we don't already do this.. Implement anti-bot / anti-spam signup practices so we can maybe remove the initial post moderation.
Oh, I very much like this idea! We've been trying to figure out how to deploy AI to assist Boost. Besides the obvious and boring answers that revolve around generative AI ("vibe coding"), perhaps we could deploy an AI model which identifies valid first posts and eliminate 90% of the need for moderation? Thanks
On Wed, Aug 27, 2025 at 2:11 PM Vinnie Falco <vinnie.falco@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, Aug 27, 2025 at 11:09 AM René Ferdinand Rivera Morell via Boost < boost@lists.boost.org> wrote:
2. If we don't already do this.. Implement anti-bot / anti-spam signup practices so we can maybe remove the initial post moderation.
Oh, I very much like this idea! We've been trying to figure out how to deploy AI to assist Boost. Besides the obvious and boring answers that revolve around generative AI ("vibe coding"), perhaps we could deploy an AI model which identifies valid first posts and eliminate 90% of the need for moderation?
Or use an existing solution like <https://www.oopspam.com/>. -- -- René Ferdinand Rivera Morell -- Don't Assume Anything -- No Supongas Nada -- Robot Dreams - http://robot-dreams.net
No dia 27 de ago. de 2025, às 21:11, Vinnie Falco via Boost <boost@lists.boost.org> escreveu:
On Wed, Aug 27, 2025 at 11:09 AM René Ferdinand Rivera Morell via Boost < boost@lists.boost.org> wrote:
2. If we don't already do this.. Implement anti-bot / anti-spam signup practices so we can maybe remove the initial post moderation.
Oh, I very much like this idea! We've been trying to figure out how to deploy AI to assist Boost. Besides the obvious and boring answers that revolve around generative AI ("vibe coding"), perhaps we could deploy an AI model which identifies valid first posts and eliminate 90% of the need for moderation?
Not so sure this effort is worth making for such low volumes as we’re handling, and given that we can probably get totally acceptable response times and zero error rates with one more human (like Arnauld). Joaquín M López Muñoz
On Wed, Aug 27, 2025 at 12:20 PM Joaquín M López Muñoz < joaquinlopezmunoz@gmail.com> wrote:
Not so sure this effort is worth making for such low volumes as we’re handling, and given that we can probably get totally acceptable response times and zero error rates with one more human
Two points: 1. If we are successful at revitalizing Boost, the volumes will not remain low. 2. No matter what the improvement in response time, it cannot be better than 0 seconds (i.e. instant approval). And while the median response time might be short, some users will experience a long response time. For example if all the moderators are asleep. An automated solution can scale. The manual one not. That said, we should of course add more resources to the manual solution immediately, while also exploring the automated solution. Thanks
Anecdotally, there appears to be either 1. no spam or bot problem on the mailing lists so far. 2. a level that is so low, it appears to not exist. More or less. at the current traffic volumes, on the boost list, the solution matches the situation very well. People seem to be imagining something else is occurring. of course, if any conditions change, anything could happen. including an escalation of AI tricking AI.
On Aug 27, 2025, at 2:04 PM, Sam Darwin via Boost <boost@lists.boost.org> wrote:
Anecdotally, there appears to be either 1. no spam or bot problem on the mailing lists so far. 2. a level that is so low, it appears to not exist. More or less.
at the current traffic volumes, on the boost list, the solution matches the situation very well. People seem to be imagining something else is occurring. of course, if any conditions change, anything could happen. including an escalation of AI tricking AI.
There is a non-zero number of spam emails (single digit/day) addressed to the boost-users-owner and boost-users addresses. The first are just ignored, and the second end up in moderation, where the moderators discard them. — Marshall
On Aug 27, 2025, at 6:36 PM, Sam Darwin <samuel.d.darwin@gmail.com> wrote:
non-zero number of spam emails
Only members have permission to post to the list. Therefore, an attempted spam would be originating from a list member, who signed up, and confirmed. After you notice this, are you setting the user to "reject" their emails?
We have effectively no spam emails from people subscribed to the list. — Marshall
We have effectively no spam emails from people subscribed to the list.
Assuming that's the case, consider this next point. On the mailman3 list "Default action to take when a non-member posts to the list" is "Reject (with notification)". Not "hold for moderation". The results of the configured "default action" mean the messages wouldn't even appear in the moderation queue. They are simply dropped. Unless the user is surreptitiously in either the non-member or member list of the server. We can chat further, offline, in Slack.
On Wed, Aug 27, 2025 at 9:17 PM Marshall Clow via Boost < boost@lists.boost.org> wrote:
On Aug 27, 2025, at 6:36 PM, Sam Darwin <samuel.d.darwin@gmail.com> wrote:
non-zero number of spam emails
Only members have permission to post to the list. Therefore, an
attempted spam would be originating from a list member, who signed up, and confirmed. After you notice this, are you setting the user to "reject" their emails?
We have effectively no spam emails from people subscribed to the list.
That's because signups and first post are moderated, right? And that seems a hurdle as it's "slow". -- -- René Ferdinand Rivera Morell -- Don't Assume Anything -- No Supongas Nada -- Robot Dreams - http://robot-dreams.net
On 27/08/2025 18:21, Vinnie Falco via Boost wrote:
As far as I know there are two designated moderators for the list: Glen Fernandes, and John Maddock.
And I'm barely here at all: we should find some new volunteers, the amount of time required is very low BTW. Best, John.
El 28/08/2025 a las 19:50, John Maddock via Boost escribió:
On 27/08/2025 18:21, Vinnie Falco via Boost wrote:
As far as I know there are two designated moderators for the list: Glen Fernandes, and John Maddock.
And I'm barely here at all: we should find some new volunteers, the amount of time required is very low BTW.
Best, John.
I'm in GMT+1/2 time zone, if the volumen is low, I can help with moderation. Best, Ion
Sam, can you please add Ion as a new moderator? Thanks. Thanks Ion and everyone who volunteered. We can start by adding Ion and then decide if we need to add more later. Glen On Friday, August 29, 2025, Ion Gaztañaga via Boost <boost@lists.boost.org> wrote:
El 28/08/2025 a las 19:50, John Maddock via Boost escribió:
On 27/08/2025 18:21, Vinnie Falco via Boost wrote:
As far as I know there are two designated moderators for the list: Glen Fernandes, and John Maddock.
And I'm barely here at all: we should find some new volunteers, the amount of time required is very low BTW.
Best, John.
I'm in GMT+1/2 time zone, if the volumen is low, I can help with moderation.
Best,
Ion _______________________________________________ Boost mailing list -- boost@lists.boost.org To unsubscribe send an email to boost-leave@lists.boost.org https://lists.boost.org/mailman3/lists/boost.lists.boost.org/ Archived at: https://lists.boost.org/archives/list/boost@lists.boost.org/ message/QQVRF6GUBVQC7OQPPOPE4PRXT3USIHD3/
participants (9)
-
Arnaud Becheler -
Glen Fernandes -
Ion Gaztañaga -
Joaquín M López Muñoz -
John Maddock -
Marshall Clow -
René Ferdinand Rivera Morell -
Sam Darwin -
Vinnie Falco