Ten Things I Hate About the Mailing List
1. New posters getting moderated and delayed 2. No rich text messages 3. other stuff I can't think of right now, let me get back to you on that. -- Regards, Vinnie Follow me on GitHub: https://github.com/vinniefalco
On Mon, Sep 1, 2025 at 11:11 PM Vinnie Falco via Boost < boost@lists.boost.org> wrote:
1. New posters getting moderated and delayed 2. No rich text messages 3. other stuff I can't think of right now, let me get back to you on that.
I can help, you probably also hate the fact that members get to keep a copy of all the traffic if they so choose. So far we've listed only things I love about the mailing list.
On Sep 1, 2025, at 8:09 PM, Vinnie Falco via Boost <boost@lists.boost.org> wrote:
1. New posters getting moderated and delayed 2. No rich text messages 3. other stuff I can't think of right now, let me get back to you on that.
10 (trinary) things I love about mailing lists (in general) 1. They don’t interrupt me to tell me about new messages 2. I have a choice of clients. 3. I have a local archive that I can index and search with my own choice of tools. Note to all: I’m not disagreeing with Vinnie; just offering a different perspective. — Marshall
2 septembre 2025 à 05:09 "Vinnie Falco via Boost" <boost@lists.boost.org mailto:boost@lists.boost.org?to=%22Vinnie%20Falco%20via%20Boost%22%20%3Cboost%40lists.boost.org%3E > a écrit:
1. New posters getting moderated and delayed
To address this point, i can volunteer as a moderator as well. I live in European (UTC+1/2) timezone. Regards, Julien
. New posters getting moderated and delayed
There are 8 billion people, and millions of spam bots, on the internet. But focus for a moment just on the people. You are saying that anyone should be able to post anything, at any time, by signing up to the list and just typing $#&*&%$# or whatever. On lists.mailman3, some other lists being discussed are more general in nature, and they opt to implement spam filters, instead of moderation. Guess what... They are complaining about spam getting on their lists. Applying a first-time poster moderation, and then removing moderation, is appropriate for a small, expert, community. Other technical lists do that. If building an online forum aimed at a wider audience, with hundreds of topics, that's different, you wouldn't enforce the same types of moderation, it's application-specific.
On Tue, Sep 2, 2025 at 4:12 AM Sam Darwin via Boost <boost@lists.boost.org> wrote:
You are saying that anyone should be able to post anything, at any time, by signing up to the list and just typing $#&*&%$# or whatever.
I am saying that the new user experience is terrible. For the Boost.SQLite review I reached out into my contacts and I urged qualified folks to write a review. None were previously subscribed to the mailing list and all of them got stuck in the queue. The latest one has been in the queue for ten hours (it still has not been approved). Thanks
Hello list, I can volunteer to moderate the list too. I'm at UTC-3. Kind regards, On Tue, Sep 2, 2025 at 9:12 AM Vinnie Falco via Boost <boost@lists.boost.org> wrote:
On Tue, Sep 2, 2025 at 4:12 AM Sam Darwin via Boost <boost@lists.boost.org> wrote:
You are saying that anyone should be able to post anything, at any time, by signing up to the list and just typing $#&*&%$# or whatever.
I am saying that the new user experience is terrible. For the Boost.SQLite review I reached out into my contacts and I urged qualified folks to write a review. None were previously subscribed to the mailing list and all of them got stuck in the queue. The latest one has been in the queue for ten hours (it still has not been approved).
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-- Felipe Magno de Almeida Owner @ Expertise Solutions www: https://expertise.dev phone: +55 48 9 9681.0157 LinkedIn: in/felipealmeida
On Tue, Sep 2, 2025 at 5:30 AM Felipe Magno de Almeida < felipe.m.almeida@gmail.com> wrote:
I can volunteer to moderate the list too. I'm at UTC-3.
Thank you very much for your support. I am now hearing from a moderator tha there is a problem with lists.boost.org timing out, and they are unable to perform any moderation actions. Hopefully Sam will resolve it shortly. Regards
Probably the quickest and easiest short-term workaround would be to add moderators in non-US timezones (happy to volunteer if that helps, located Ireland). As folks are discussing the rights and wrongs of using a mailing list, personally I’m not a huge fan of mailing lists in general. I find them clunky and awkward, and where an alternative exists I tend to avoid them, preferring web-based forums or systems like Slack. I do, however, appreciate not everyone is the same and everyone has their own favoured approach.
On 2 Sep 2025, at 13:10, Vinnie Falco via Boost <boost@lists.boost.org> wrote:
On Tue, Sep 2, 2025 at 4:12 AM Sam Darwin via Boost <boost@lists.boost.org> wrote:
You are saying that anyone should be able to post anything, at any time, by signing up to the list and just typing $#&*&%$# or whatever.
I am saying that the new user experience is terrible. For the Boost.SQLite review I reached out into my contacts and I urged qualified folks to write a review. None were previously subscribed to the mailing list and all of them got stuck in the queue. The latest one has been in the queue for ten hours (it still has not been approved).
Thanks _______________________________________________ Boost mailing list -- boost@lists.boost.org To unsubscribe send an email to boost-leave@lists.boost.org https://lists.boost.org/mailman3/lists/boost.lists.boost.org/ Archived at: https://lists.boost.org/archives/list/boost@lists.boost.org/message/DHIXNZ5X...
Hi! I'm a new member to this list, so please be forgiving (at least a bit ;) ). In general, I had a positive feeling when I read the traditional netiquette of this list. I'm looking forward to have civilised discussions here. Am 02.09.2025 05:09 schrieb Vinnie Falco via Boost:
1. New posters getting moderated and delayed
This seems to be the case, but it should not pose a great problem, does it? In general there should be few hasty topics around here. At least, I (as an example new poster) don't feel in a hurry.
2. No rich text messages
For what should one need "rich" text in technical discussions? IMHO the content is that what matters, not the typography. And, obviously numbered lists are possible in plain text. ;) Just my €.02, Kai
Welcome Kai ! Rich formatting can come handy when communicating relatively long snippets of code, or structured text like Reviews and Review Manager Reports. One can add Markdown plain text support but it's not very comfortable, although very portable. Long moderation time can make it harder to communicate effectively, for example when the author of a library answers an email days after it's been written: the thread loops back and you lose the comfy linear structure of an exchange. Also sucks when closing deadlines (reviews deadlines, PRs, boost versions etc). Just my 0.02 euros Kind regards, Arno
On Tue, Sep 2, 2025 at 5:40 AM kazwo--- via Boost <boost@lists.boost.org> wrote:
For what should one need "rich" text in technical discussions? IMHO the content is that what matters, not the typography. And, obviously numbered lists are possible in plain text. ;)
Maybe all the Boost documentation should be in plain text? Its the content that matters... Maybe all the websites you visit should be in plain text? Its the content that matters...
On 2 Sep 2025 15:50, Vinnie Falco via Boost wrote:
On Tue, Sep 2, 2025 at 5:40 AM kazwo--- via Boost <boost@lists.boost.org> wrote:
For what should one need "rich" text in technical discussions? IMHO the content is that what matters, not the typography. And, obviously numbered lists are possible in plain text. ;)
Maybe all the Boost documentation should be in plain text? Its the content that matters...
Maybe all the websites you visit should be in plain text? Its the content that matters...
Online communication e.g. on a mailing list is not documentation or a website. ML is also not a social network or a chat. I'm sure you understand.
Nearly every other mailing list I participate in uses html rather than plain text. What is wrong with conversation looking like this? https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/g/cxx/c/00OXAm1pqv8 Claudio. On Tue, Sep 2, 2025 at 4:02 PM Andrey Semashev via Boost < boost@lists.boost.org> wrote:
On 2 Sep 2025 15:50, Vinnie Falco via Boost wrote:
On Tue, Sep 2, 2025 at 5:40 AM kazwo--- via Boost <boost@lists.boost.org
wrote:
For what should one need "rich" text in technical discussions? IMHO the content is that what matters, not the typography. And, obviously numbered lists are possible in plain text. ;)
Maybe all the Boost documentation should be in plain text? Its the content that matters...
Maybe all the websites you visit should be in plain text? Its the content that matters...
Online communication e.g. on a mailing list is not documentation or a website. ML is also not a social network or a chat. I'm sure you understand.
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On 2 Sep 2025 18:03, Claudio DeSouza via Boost wrote:
On Tue, Sep 2, 2025 at 4:02 PM Andrey Semashev via Boost < boost@lists.boost.org> wrote:
On 2 Sep 2025 15:50, Vinnie Falco via Boost wrote:
On Tue, Sep 2, 2025 at 5:40 AM kazwo--- via Boost <boost@lists.boost.org
wrote:
For what should one need "rich" text in technical discussions? IMHO the content is that what matters, not the typography. And, obviously numbered lists are possible in plain text. ;)
Maybe all the Boost documentation should be in plain text? Its the content that matters...
Maybe all the websites you visit should be in plain text? Its the content that matters...
Online communication e.g. on a mailing list is not documentation or a website. ML is also not a social network or a chat. I'm sure you understand.
Nearly every other mailing list I participate in uses html rather than plain text.
My experience is the opposite. In fact, I don't think I participated in a single list where HTML was preferred.
What is wrong with conversation looking like this? https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/g/cxx/c/00OXAm1pqv8
Notice that the commenters following the first post did not bother to put their replies inline. That hints at the problem - because the rich text formatting of the original message is a pain to work with for the responders. You either have to put in the effort to manually make the quoted parts look decent in the reply, or you give up and top-post, often without any context of what part you're replying to. BTW, top-posting is discouraged on this list. Please, avoid it in the future.
Notice that the commenters following the first post did not bother to put their replies inline. That hints at the problem - because the rich text formatting of the original message is a pain to work with for the responders.
There's no difference with modern clients to produce quotes between plain text and non-plain text. In summary, in the gmail client (and possibly in most of the others) it is literally the same as what I'm doing to quote you right now. No extra hurdles. If I were to speculate why people are not doing these little quotes of each other in that thread, it is because this type of quote replies are not very popular these days in email communication, but ultimately we are jumping to conclusions about why people are not quoting each other in that thread. The fact is that you perfectly able to do that with no problems. However, the real constraints come with plain text, where one is constrained to what they can post, and the boost mailing list is an outlier here. Claudio
On 2 Sep 2025 18:29, Claudio DeSouza via Boost wrote:
Notice that the commenters following the first post did not bother to put their replies inline. That hints at the problem - because the rich text formatting of the original message is a pain to work with for the responders.
There's no difference with modern clients to produce quotes between plain text and non-plain text. In summary, in the gmail client (and possibly in most of the others) it is literally the same as what I'm doing to quote you right now. No extra hurdles. If I were to speculate why people are not doing these little quotes of each other in that thread, it is because this type of quote replies are not very popular these days in email communication, but ultimately we are jumping to conclusions about why people are not quoting each other in that thread. The fact is that you perfectly able to do that with no problems.
While I don't know the reasons people had when they posted replies in that list, inserting replies in the middle of an HTML-formatted message is definitely not a non-hurdle task, and you often end up with a subpar result compared to plain text. This definitely could be a strong contributing factor in choosing the format of a reply. As I noted in my reply to Vinnie, in that case his HTML formatting broke quotation marks in my reply to him. That example was relatively innocent, but with stuff like code blocks or other advanced formatting, which, apparently, is the reason to use rich text in the first place, this can be much worse.
While I don't know the reasons people had when they posted replies in that list, inserting replies in the middle of an HTML-formatted message is definitely not a non-hurdle task, and you often end up with a subpar result compared to plain text. This definitely could be a strong contributing factor in choosing the format of a reply.
As I explained already, it is a nonissue to quote replies with HTML-based clients, and in fact the same as plain text these days. I'll also emphasise again that I don't think speculating why people in another list are not quote-replying each as is the practice in this list contributes to an informed discussion on the trade-off because we just don't know. Claudio
On Tue, Sep 2, 2025 at 8:16 AM Andrey Semashev via Boost < boost@lists.boost.org> wrote:
BTW, top-posting is discouraged on this list. Please, avoid it in the future.
Fwiw, modern mail clients like gmail, for example, have solved the top-posting issue by automatically hiding it. I'd recommend considering an updated mail client. - Christian
On 2 Sep 2025 19:02, Christian Mazakas via Boost wrote:
On Tue, Sep 2, 2025 at 8:16 AM Andrey Semashev via Boost < boost@lists.boost.org> wrote:
BTW, top-posting is discouraged on this list. Please, avoid it in the future.
Fwiw, modern mail clients like gmail, for example, have solved the top-posting issue by automatically hiding it. I'd recommend considering an updated mail client.
The point of inline replies is not about hiding the quotations but in providing context for the reply and preserve the natural flow of the discussion. The hiding feature is irrelevant.
On Tue, Sep 2, 2025 at 9:04 AM Christian Mazakas via Boost < boost@lists.boost.org> wrote:
Fwiw, modern mail clients like gmail, for example, have solved the top-posting issue
Why can't the server just detect top-posting and automatically edit the post on behalf of the user, perhaps also inserting a reminder that top-posting is discouraged? Thanks
Online communication e.g. on a mailing list is not documentation or a website. ML is also not a social network or a chat. I'm sure you understand
I think Vinnie has a point though. Formatting (or the lack of) can serve or deserve communication. For quick emails and short replies, the balance usually favors minimal formatting—plain text, short sentences, and clear calls to action. It’s clean, portable, and fast to write and read. But as a technical note grows in length or complexity, its structure has to carry more meaning. At that point, formatting stops being cosmetic and becomes part of the content: it conveys hierarchy, relationships, and emphasis. You can do this in pure plain text, but it raises friction, hurts scanability, discourages participation, and doesn’t scale for detailed or nested material. The lack of properly formatted code blocks is IMO a killer on such ML :) Kind regards, Arnaud
El 02/09/2025 a las 17:14, Arnaud Becheler via Boost escribió:
Online communication e.g. on a mailing list is not documentation or a website. ML is also not a social network or a chat. I'm sure you understand
I think Vinnie has a point though. Formatting (or the lack of) can serve or deserve communication.
For quick emails and short replies, the balance usually favors minimal formatting—plain text, short sentences, and clear calls to action. It’s clean, portable, and fast to write and read.
But as a technical note grows in length or complexity, its structure has to carry more meaning. At that point, formatting stops being cosmetic and becomes part of the content: it conveys hierarchy, relationships, and emphasis. You can do this in pure plain text, but it raises friction, hurts scanability, discourages participation, and doesn’t scale for detailed or nested material. The lack of properly formatted code blocks is IMO a killer on such ML :)
I'm with you and Claudio on the convenience of properly supporting rich-text posts (probably via HTML). I understand the problems but I think these are outweighed by the new possibilities in terms of producing informative/readable stuff (basic formatting, codeblocks, tables, images). And it's not like people _don't_ post tables and codeblocks on the ML --they just do it in a very lame way, since the beginning of time. Joaquín M López Muñoz
participants (13)
-
Andrey Semashev -
Arnaud Becheler -
Christian Mazakas -
Claudio DeSouza -
Emil Dotchevski -
Felipe Magno de Almeida -
Joaquin M López Muñoz -
Julien Blanc -
kazwo＠posteo.eu -
Marshall Clow -
Mungo Gill -
Sam Darwin -
Vinnie Falco