From: Paul A. Bristow (boost_at_[hidden])
Date: 2002-03-14 04:49:14
I believe a templated rational WILL be useful and will be used with 32 or 64
bit integers, (or unlimited precision integers when available).
Isn't the key advantage of rational is that results remain EXACT (no
rounding etc)? And perhaps rationals are quick too?
All types suffer from overflow risk - we have been warned.
Surely C++ compilers allow one to switch integer overflow
detection/exception on and off?
Perhaps this is possible portably? Or is that too high an expectation?
Dr Paul A Bristow, hetp Chromatography
LA8 8AB UK
+44 1539 561830
Mobile +44 7714 33 02 04
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Moore, Paul [mailto:paul.moore_at_[hidden]]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 8:54 AM
> To: boost_at_[hidden]
> Cc: Chuck Allison
> Subject: [boost] Rational precision issues (Was: Standardization of
> Boost libraries)
> From: "Chuck Allison" <cda_at_[hidden]>
> > Please pardon my naievete, but isn't the underlying numeric
> > type to rational a template parameter (I don't have the
> > class handy)? Isn't it equipped therefore to use an
> > instantiation based on unlimited precision integers? If
> > not, could you please explain why not. (I assume that an
> > unlimited precision integer package would overload
> > the pertinent operators).
> The rational<> class will work fine with an unlimited-precision type. The
> problem arises when the rational<> type is used with a *limited* precision
> integer type. Here, overflow issues raise their ugly heads.
> Imagine, for example, a single-digit decimal type I. Now consider
> rational<I> r1(1,4); // No problem - one quarter
> rational<I> r2(1,3); // Again, no problem, one third
> // Now watch: The correct answer is seven twelfths. But the
> // denominator (12) is not representable as a value of type I!
> // We can't rely on overflow like this raising an exception,
> // as the built-in int type doesn't. So what do we do? Silently
> // give the wrong answer? Try to detect overflow manually, which
> // is expensive, hurting "normal" performance for the benefit of
> // an extreme case?
> rational<I> r3 = r1 + r2;
> Worse still is the fact that for "real" 32-bit integers, this
> problem isn't
> going to hit often, making it even nastier (due to unexpectedness) when it
> does. And there are (potentially) worse cases, where the result is in the
> representable range, but intermediate results overflow, unless you take
> extreme measures to avoid it (and I'm not sure it's theoretically possible
> to avoid intermediate overflow in all cases). As a (trivial) example here,
> try 1/6 + 1/2. The result is 4/6, but the naive algorithm works via
> These sorts of problems plague floating point arithmetic. People
> are likely
> to use rationals as a way of avoiding the problems perceived with floating
> point. If rationals merely exchange a set of commonly known problems for a
> set of equally subtle but less well-known problems, they haven't actually
> I have yet to get a good feel for whether "real world" use of rationals
> would hit problems with 32-bit integer precision. My view is that *if* it
> isn't a practical problem, then simply documenting the issue (as I have
> tried to do in the rational.hpp documentation) is enough. If
> these problems
> do hit real-world applications, though, it may be better not to have a
> templated rational class at all, and force use of unlimited-precision
> integers as part of the class implementation...
> I have a sneaking suspicion that no-one *really* knows if this would be an
> issue in practice :-(
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