Re: [boost] Random numbers

From: Baris KAYGISIZER (baris.kaygisizer_at_[hidden])
Date: 2003-09-15 08:29:07

Hi Reid,

Thanks for your opinions.
I read this article http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/11.08/random_pr.html
3 weeks ago. I think that I can do this. Thereupon i researched on the net
and read become facts projects.

My generator isn't a box or single device. Generator is coming into
existence my PC, Radio and Stallite TV system, Web Camera and Microphone.
All of the systems are connected to my PC. A program on this PC is
collecting datas from these systems. According to algorithm in program is
mixing and creating random numbers. All of the systems are in my room and
generated true numbers in my PC.

I want to sure really my generated true random numbers. How can i tested?

Thanks.

Baris.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Reid Sweatman" <drunkardswalk_at_[hidden]>
To: "Boost mailing list" <boost_at_[hidden]>
Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2003 3:35 PM
Subject: RE: [boost] Random numbers

> Okay, then you *are* doing something like Yarrow.  Have you read that
paper?
> I always liked the idea myself, and I'm sure someone here will jump in to
> remind me why no one else did <g>.  On a side note, I had an interesting
> conversation with one of AMD's design people a couple of years back where
I
> suggested that they implement a white noise generator with an opcode to
> sample it right on the CPU silicon.  I don't think it had occurred to them
> before that, and, of course, they said it would go on the wish list, but
I'm
> guessing it got thirty-filed right away.  Still, it would be a nice thing
to
> have, and arguably more useful than lots of the things they waste opcode
> space on.
>
> Anyway, I seem to be the only one responding, at least on the list.  I
like
> the idea, especially if it can be faired into the existing random module
> cleanly.  One last question:  since so many of the good sources of entropy
> on a machine are platform-dependent, how are you addressing cross-platform
> portability?  And with that, I'll bow out of the thread and make room for
> others to get a word in edgewise.
>
> Reid Sweatman
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: boost-bounces_at_[hidden]
> > [mailto:boost-bounces_at_[hidden]]On Behalf Of Baris KAYGISIZER
> > Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2003 1:05 AM
> > To: Boost mailing list
> > Subject: Re: [boost] Random numbers
> >
> >
> > I think, I don't explain. sorry. Absolutely, my generator is using
> > outside/external source too, if i want to procreate real random
> > numbers. My
> > outside/external device is collecting source as voice/sound/noise,
> > picture/photo, movie and etc for generator. Generator/Creator is a
little
> > computer program on a PC. Generator confuses sources comes from
collector
> > with computer program. And then creates random numbers. Thats all
shortly.
> >
> > Baris.
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Reid Sweatman" <drunkardswalk_at_[hidden]>
> > To: "Boost mailing list" <boost_at_[hidden]>
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2003 8:29 AM
> > Subject: RE: [boost] Random numbers
> >
> >
> > > Since it's already top-posted, I'll keep it that way, or it'll
> > really get
> > > confusing.  I think I'm a little more clear on what you're
> > talking about,
> > > but still not sure.  Okay, no external device, just software.  But not
a
> > > pseudo-random number generator (PRNG), i.e., one that, given the same
> > > starting state, always produces the same sequence of numbers, right?
To
> > do
> > > that, you *have* to have some source of entropy, and you've just said,
> > it's
> > > not hardware.  That seems to leave something like Schneier's Yarrow,
> > right?
> > > Or am I still missing something?  There was a thread on the topic some
> > > little while ago that should turn up in the archives.  As I recall, I
> > > proposed including Yarrow, and others raised some pretty good points
in
> > > rebuttal, so it never happened.  Is this the kind of thing
> > you're talking
> > > about?  Using various mensurable things on the computer, such as
timing
> > > variations between keystrokes, variations in network response times,
the
> > > contents of various machine registers and memory locations at
particular
> > > times (many ways to vary when they're read), to feed an "entropy
pool,"
> > > which is churned continuously and tapped as needed?  This is the basic
> > idea
> > > behind Yarrow, the original paper on which should still be available
at
> > > www.counterpane.com.  Or am I misunderstanding you still?  I'm
> > confused in
> > > that you say you're "not using noise when creating."  There
> > *must* be some
> > > source of entropy, of randomness, since, as you noted, any
> > purely software
> > > algorithm is completely deterministic.  (Incidentally,
> > reproducibility of
> > a
> > > "random" stream is a plus in some kinds of application).
> > >
> > > Reid
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: boost-bounces_at_[hidden]
> > > > [mailto:boost-bounces_at_[hidden]]On Behalf Of Baris KAYGISIZER
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2003 4:26 AM
> > > > To: Boost mailing list
> > > > Subject: Re: [boost] Random numbers
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hi Reid,
> > > >
> > > > Yes, i am using Outlook Express. i defined plain text this e-mail. I
> > hope,
> > > > no problem. That i mean; Some computer programs generate
> > random numbers
> > > > without using outside device/machine/or whatever. These random
numbers
> > are
> > > > not real, not casual. Because, only computer programs generate same
> > random
> > > > numbers always. True random number generators are using noise
> > amplifier,
> > > > thermal noise, etc. that i read lots of article. This is the
> > > > similer that i
> > > > made my generator. I am not using noise when creating.
> > > >
> > > > kindest
> > > >
> > > > Baris.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: Reid Sweatman
> > > > To: Boost mailing list
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2003 3:13 AM
> > > > Subject: RE: [boost] Random numbers
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > First, sorry for the top-post; Outlook likes them, and it's hard to
> > defeat
> > > > its HTML formatting.  On to the meat.  What do you mean when you
> > > > say "Random
> > > > numbers sources are not computer program"?  That you're using
machine
> > > > properties as an entropy source?  Or that you have an attached
device
> > that
> > > > supplies entropy, say like something that amplifies
> > transistor junction
> > > > noise?  It's hard to evaluate your proposal when you're not sure
what
> > it's
> > > > proposing.
> > > >
> > > > Reid Sweatman
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: boost-bounces_at_[hidden]
> > > > [mailto:boost-bounces_at_[hidden]]On
> > > > Behalf Of Baris KAYGISIZER
> > > > Sent: Monday, September 08, 2003 8:54 AM
> > > > To: boost_at_[hidden]
> > > > Subject: [boost] Random numbers
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hi all,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > i have a question. i am working on a random numbers in last 2
> > > > weeks. Who can
> > > > use the random numbers or who wants? I can create real random
> > > > numbers. Real
> > > > random numbers mean: Random numbers sources are not computer
program.
> > Who
> > > > wants to use these?
> > > >
> > > > Thx.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Baris KAYGISIZER
> > > > baris.kaygisizer_at_[hidden]
> > > >
> > > >
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