[boost] A bike shed (any colour will do) on greener grass...

Subject: [boost] A bike shed (any colour will do) on greener grass...
From: Stephen Kelly (steveire_at_[hidden])
Date: 2013-10-19 03:19:24

On 10/18/2013 07:04 PM, Edward Diener wrote:
>> A long
>> sub-thread like this is bad.
>
> No a sub-thread like this is not bad. 

Please read this if you are not already familiar with it, or re-read it
if you are:

 http://bikeshed.org/

Mails like your are bad for some of the same reasons that bikeshedding
is bad.

* You are sending a mail to a mailing list full of people (just like
with bikeshedding) with a query you can solve on your own.
* You are dragging the thread off-topic (just like with bikeshedding).
This used to be a thread about modularization. Now it's 'the run grep
for Edward thread'.
* It causes value-free endless repetitions (just like with bikeshedding).
* Other people get tied up in what you write (just like with bikeshedding).
* Your mail creates an environment in which such sub-threads are common
(just like with bikeshedding). A nuisance to be expected.
* It creates an expectation of the same thing from others (just like
with bikeshedding).

It's bad like bikeshedding.

Notice, because if I don't point it out you might not (though it should
go without saying), that I said it's bad for the some of the same
reasons as bikeshedding is bad. I didn't say you were bikeshedding.

I expected such nuisance and put a note in my initial mail about it. I
should have also noted 'Don't ask me to run grep for you'. I will next
time.

I actually thought you were being deliberately ironic for comedy when
you quoted my note, being careful to snip below it, and then asked a
question which obviously showed you have not read or understood the
thread so far:

 http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lib.boost.devel/245078/focus=245138

I decided to give you the benefit of the doubt:

 http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lib.boost.devel/245078/focus=245140

and I repeated myself.

Notice, because if I don't point it out you might not (though it should
go without saying), that causing endless repetition is part of 'badness'
in my list above.

Your response was incredible:

 http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lib.boost.devel/245078/focus=245142

It is worded to read to imply 'Your claim is wrong. I checked and didn't
see graph. Where do you see it?' Now it turns out that you somehow
managed to not search recursively. That is certainly bad. You need to be
more-sure before responding. Many people will get your mail. Other
people read your mail and take what you write at face value.

Notice, because if I don't point it out you might not (though it should
go without saying), that getting other people caught up in confusion is
a common bad trait with bikeshedding.

The mails I pointed out are excellent examples of what I was referring
to as 'low quality' responses here:

 http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lib.boost.devel/245078/focus=245123

There are others I've encountered though in my short time on this list.

Vincente has also asked me to run grep for him a few times by now too:

 http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lib.boost.devel/244856/focus=244888

and it took a couple of mails to land the difference between today and
yesterday:

 http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lib.boost.devel/244216/focus=244242

These mails only create confusion. They are being sent without enough
thought. Here's an example where a confused response resulted from not
reading the attached commit. Beman read the response, and I guess also
did not read the commit, and also got caught up in the confusion:

 http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lib.boost.devel/244392/focus=244396

Notice, because if I don't point it out you might not (though it should
go without saying), that getting other people caught up in confusion is
a common bad trait with bikeshedding.

It also led me to expect the same quality from others before expecting
anything else:

 http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lib.boost.devel/245080/focus=245081

Notice, because if I don't point it out you might not (though it should
go without saying), that creating 'expection of the same thing' is a
common bad trait with bikeshedding.

I'm writing this mail because I should not have to write this mail. Such
react-before-looking-or-thinking mails are bad. They drag threads
off-topic. They confuse others. It's a bigger problem on this list than
any other I've been on.

This sub-thread *is* bad. I hope this mail helps you understand why.

Thanks,

Steve.