
Geometry : 
Subject: Re: [geometry] distance between geometries
From: Barend Gehrels (barend_at_[hidden])
Date: 20130902 14:26:33
Hi Adam,
Thanks for your clear images!
On 292013 0:04, Adam Wulkiewicz wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Barend Gehrels wrote:
>> On 192013 15:36, Adam Wulkiewicz wrote:
>>> I'd like to expose some functionalities that are currently in
>>> index::detail to the user, the algorithms calculating:
>>>  the shortest and longest comparable distance,
>>
>> I assume you mean this?
>>
>>
>>
>
> Yes, also those would be the shortest distances:
>
>
Sure
>
>> So the shortest is the normal one, what is available as
>> boost::geometry::comparable_distance
>>
>> The longest distance is indeed not yet available as distance or as
>> comparable_distance
>>
>
> I understand that bg::comparable_distance() is intended to work for
> all Geometries and e.g. for cartesian it should return the square of
> the shortest distance between two Geometries. Ok this works for me.
OK
>
>>
>>>  the comparable distance on a path (linestring or segment) to the
>>> first intersected geometry from the first path's point or even from
>>> some intermediate position on the path.
>>
>> Do you mean a real intersection, or an object touching or somewhere
>> in the neighbourhood?
>
> Initially I thought about providing ray queries. Those queries return
> some number of objects hit by a ray.
>
>
>
>
> Because we don't have a Ray concept I decided to use Segment and by
> extension Linestring. I thought about a real intersection because this
> algorithm will probably be the fastest one but more general variations
> could also be useful. I'd like to allow users using any algorithm they
> want in a strategy of the nearest() predicate. More algorithms means
> more possibilities.
>
> Btw, Is this what you've thought?
>
>
Yes, based on your proposal, I think that intersecting and objects close
by are both interesting. But if you want the first 5, you might get
ambiguities (closer to starting point, or closer to the line...)
>
>>
>>>
>>> I'd like to expose them to allow users passing a strategy to
>>> nearest() predicate. The user would be able to define how the
>>> distance is calculated. The same predicate would work as knn queries
>>> (1) or ray queries (2).
>>>
>>> The use case would e.g. look like this:
>>>
>>> 1. return 5 buildings (Box) nearest to the river (LineString)
>>>
>>> tree.query(nearest(river, 5, shortest_distance), out_it);
>>>
>>> 2. return 5 bridges (Box) nearest to the begin point(or current
>>> location) along the river (LineString) to the north.
>>>
>>> tree.query(nearest(river, 5, path_distance), out_it);
>>> tree.query(nearest(river, 5, path_distance(location)), out_it); //
>>> maybe
>>
>> Where is the North specified? Could you make a small picture such
>> that it is crystal clear what is what, and what you exactly mean?
>> Because you mention bridges, my question above will probably be
>> answered by a real intersection... Do we have already something
>> returning the first houses close to the river, following the path?
>>
>
> Ah sorry, I was thinking too fast. In this example the river would
> probably have to be divided into two linestrings. First one would go
> in the opposite direction than the second one from some location. The
> second query() call indeed lack the definition of direction.
>
>
>
> Well, in the real life the data would probably be stored in some graph
> and knn query won't be needed, nevertheless this is an example of a
> use case.
Sure. OK in this case you can also define the starting point somewhere
on a (one) existing linestring and travel both ways along the line.
Interesting.
>
>>>
>>> The user would also be able to use the distance to the Geometry
>>> related to the stored bounding box, not only the distance to the
>>> bounding box.
>> That sounds logical to me, this is probably the first thing wanted.
>>>
>>> Do you think that they're good candidates not only for the BGI but
>>> also for the entire BG? In other words should they be implemented in
>>> the boost::geometry or boost::geometry::index namespace? Also do you
>>> have an idea for the name? Currently I'm using
>>> comparable_distance_near() and comparable_distance_far(). Should
>>> they have separate names or e.g. be implemented as
>>> bg::comparable_distance with strategy (probably empty)?
>>
>>
>> The comparable distance is already there. It measures the shortest
>> distance. You can specify a strategy there. Comparable distances are
>> useful for both cartesian systems (pythagoras) as spherical systems
>> (haversine) but not (always) on the Earth, the normal
>> distancecalculation is there used as the comparable strategy too.
>>
>> So the question is: do we want to indicate the point to where we
>> measure (shortest, longest) too? For index I think this might be
>> indeed useful (you can make queries as "the whole geometry should be
>> located within a certain distance"), for the rest I have never had
>> this question.
>
> The distance in the knn query is used to check which Values are closer
> than the others so in the case of the longest distance it would be
> used to sort nearest geometries by the distance to the furthest point.
>
>
>
> I indeed used it to locate Values within some distance and removed
> this possibility because using different predicate  within(circle) is
> more intuitive. Currently I can't find a reasonable use case for it.
> And to be honest this algorithm probably won't be needed, at least by
> the majority of users. Sorry for the confusion.
OK. Yes indeed the within(circle) covers that, thanks for explanation
and picture.
>
>>
>> What has been asked several times is returning not only the distance
>> (the shortest distance), but also the point on the polygon where this
>> shortest distance is measured. Besides that it is sometimes useful to
>> get the distance from a point inside a polygon to the border (which
>> can also be expressed using something as distance(point,
>> view_as<linestring_tag>(polygon))
>>
>> So I started (but it is never submitted to SVN) a "distance_info"
>> function, returning 1) the distance from inside (orange point), 2)
>> the projected point (green below), 3) the segment on which it occurs,
>> 4) the distance on that segment (s below). In case of two
>> linestrings/polygons we need to return the 2,3,4 in duplo. In case of
>> multipolygons we need to return to which polygon(s) but that is part
>> of the segmentidentifier which is already available.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Why I'm saying this now is that we might also add the
>> pointtomeasureto (shortest, longest) to this distance_info
>> function as an additional parameter. That fits quite well. You would
>> get the extra info (2,3,4) to that point then too. These are
>> functionalities which are sometimes very useful, but not the first
>> things asked...
>>
>> There are some additional complexities, because it can well be that a
>> point is located on an equal shortest (or longest) distance to two
>> (or more) segments of a polygon or linestring, so we might need to
>> return a whole collection of projected points...
>
> Yes, the knowledge about the position of a measurepoint in some cases
> is useful, e.g. in the Linestring example above where the position of
> a closest point must be calculated and then it's distance from the
> beginning of the Linestring.
>
> I thought about something related to this and nearest predicate. If we
> have two points inside a Polygon or Two Polygons intersecting one
> Point, which one is the closest?
>
>
>
> If I remember correctly, currently I'm using distance = 0 if the Point
> is inside (intersecting) the Box but one could also say that the
> closest one is the one nearest to the centroid or further of the
> border or even something else.
I see, so this is another sort of ambiguity indeed. I don't know what
users expect if they ask for the 5 nearest points and there are 10
inside. But using the centroid is an interesting solution. However, if
two points are located on the same distance (w.r.t. centroid), you can
still get an arbitrary choice... I don't think that is really
problematic, though I'm quite sure some users want to have a consistent
choice in these cases.
Regards, Barend
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